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Retro Review: Apocalypse Rising

Posted by Michelle - 16/08/13 at 06:08 pm

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Star Trek: Deep Space Nine

Season: 05 Episode: 01 (s05e01)

Original US airdate: 09/30/1996

Based on evidence picked up by Odo from the Founders, Sisko, Odo, O’Brien and Worf enter Klingon territory to expose Gowron as a Changeling.

Plot Summary: After alerting Starfleet to Odo’s warning that Gowron is a Founder, Sisko is summoned to Starfleet Command to plan an infiltration that will expose the changeling. He returns with four emitters that will force any shapeshifter to lose the ability to maintain a solid shape, though it hasn’t been tested since Odo is no longer a shapeshifter. Sisko has Bashir surgically alter himself, Odo, and O’Brien to make them look like Klingons while suggesting that Kira lure Dukat to the station to visit Ziyal so that she can ask him to sneak the Starfleet officers to Klingon military headquarters. Dukat is able to put the false names of the newly minted Klingons onto the list of candidates for the Order of the Bat’leth to get them close to Gowron, but Dukat’s ship’s holo-emitters fail and he leaves the Starfleet officers in Klingon space without backup, on the theory that if their plan works, hostilities will end, while if it doesn’t, Dukat won’t be able to prevent their executions by the Klingons. Sisko and the others blend in among Klingon warriors with even Worf remaining unrecognized until General Martok arrives and appears to recognize them, particularly O’Brien. Though Sisko comes face to face with Gowron without being recognized, he is arrested by Martok before he can activate the emitters. In their cell, Martok confesses that he too suspects that Gowron may have been replaced by a changeling and says that since Gowron has destroyed the emitters, the Starfleet officers must kill the Klingon leader to demonstrate that he isn’t who he seems to be. But when Gowron agrees to face Worf in honorable combat, Martok asks Odo why Sisko doesn’t simply shoot Gowron, which makes Odo realize that Martok has no sense of Klingon honor while Gowron does. Guessing that Martok is the real Founder, Odo provokes him into showing his shapeshifting skills, at which point every Klingon in the room fires at “Martok” until the changeling is destroyed. Though Gowron can’t end the war without the dishonor of shirking from battle, he agrees to a cease-fire, and the Starfleet officers are returned home. He warns Worf that Worf will regret not killing him while he had the chance.

Analysis: “Apocalypse Rising” is a grand title and suggests approaching disaster, yet this season premiere has no such grand ambitions. In retrospect, it’s obvious that the writers realized they had made a big mistake in the previous season, trying to set up the Klingons as adversaries of the Federation instead of focusing on the Dominion and their natural allies, the pragmatic, non-honor-bound Cardassians, but they could only begin the work of unraveling that problem in this episode, in which Dukat and Damar continue to be reasonable if wary allies against the Klingons while Gowron seems as bug-eyed nutty as ever, even if he’s not a shapeshifter. It’s nowhere near the intensity of “The Homecoming” or “The Search,” but at least it’s not “The Way of the Warrior,” which attempted to substitute the Klingons as the main point of character interest for the series when previously the Bajoran-Cardassian conflict and Sisko’s unique role in it had been the focus. In retrospect, I’m not sorry we got a season obsessed with Klingon honor and warrior posturing – some of that was inevitable when Worf came on the series and it gave Dax a different kind of clout, since she’s intimately familiar with Klingon culture and values. But in terms of the narrative, there’s some backtracking that feels pretty clumsy, from the throwaway crisis on the station in Sisko’s absence when Bashir must deal with dozens of casualties from the abortive war with the Klingons that will quickly be forgotten to the fact that we never get any good explanation of why the Founders thought it would be a good idea to put Odo and “Martok” in proximity given how quickly Odo unmasks his fellow changeling. The Federation and the Klingons are already fighting; why do the Founders need Sisko to assassinate Gowron when Gowron himself says the war will likely continue just because Klingons never back away from war whether there’s a good reason for it or not?

My favorite parts of “Apocalypse Rising” involve Gul Dukat, who is always the guiltiest of pleasures – always a villain, something Kira and Sisko never forgot and I never forgot even when the writers occasionally seemed to have been overwhelmed by Marc Alaimo’s charm, looking for ways to soften up a man who could not be redeemed. His comic talents are on full display here, first in his reaction to Kira’s pregnancy, sulky mutterings about Shakaar followed by astonishment when she says without explanation that O’Brien is the father (“Major, I must say I’m shocked”), then in his eye-rolling about the probable failure of Sisko’s audacious plan (“Damar, let’s not spoil this special moment with predictions of doom”), and finally in his spontaneous choice to blow up a Klingon ship rather than let Worf try to talk sense to them (“I have a better idea”). The other funny moments involve Kira blaming Bashir for her uncomfortable pregnancy – on the show, she might have been carrying the O’Briens’ baby because of Keiko’s medical crisis, but in real life, most of the audience knew that Alexander Siddig was the father of Nana Visitor’s child – and Worf giving the fake Klingons lessons in passing as warriors, resulting in Worf warning Sisko that he just challenged him to the death. It’s always both amusing and oddly uncomfortable to see humans altered to look like aliens, kind of like watching actors put on blackface, so since Klingon culture is fictional in the first place, the contrivance makes it look like the writers are mocking this species that they themselves invented. It’s excellent actors like J.G. Hertzler who make the Klingons look like more. I mean, Odo learns to pass for Klingon in one short lesson! O’Brien passes Martok’s test! Sisko is already as Klingon as Worf! It suggests that being a part of this millennia-old culture is entirely a matter of posturing. I’m surprised Worf and Dax go along with Sisko’s infiltration plan (and that Dax isn’t one of the crewmembers chosen, considering that she speaks the language and can kick butt with a bat’leth, plus we see women being honored by the warriors so it’s not a men-only event).

As annoying as I find it that Odo can pass as a Klingon so quickly – and urgh, how many times must we see drunken Klingons bragging about bat’leth glory as if that’s the sum total of their society? – it’s nice to see Odo back in top form as an investigator. He figures out who the real changeling is not because he was born among them but using deduction, and considering how often he’s lumped all solids together in the past, he does a fine job distinguishing expected Klingon behavior from expected human behavior – “Martok” could, after all, have claimed he expected Sisko to shoot Gowron because it’s the sort of thing an honor-deprived human would do. Gowron, who hates changelings, is the only one who thanks Odo directly for averting a huge crisis. I’m sorry Odo and Kira have had so little interaction since Odo’s enormous change – Odo does his bonding with Sisko, explaining that he now takes comfort in food and drink, while Kira does a fine job demonstrating that pregnant or not, she won’t let Worf patronize her or try to override her orders, but I miss their friendship and I can’t see how the newly human Odo doesn’t feel the same way. Obviously the repercussions of what’s been done to him by his own people will come up again and again, and I’m glad it’s never used for comedy, the idea of a grown “man” learning to be human with all the potential gross toilet humor hinted at very briefly by Odo when he discusses his first experiences of ingestion, but one of my overall frustrations with the fifth season the first time around was how long it took the writers to figure out what they wanted to do with Odo’s long-admitted feelings for Kira and Kira’s unique position as a Bajoran freedom fighter among Starfleet officers. I’m so glad that Odo insists on keeping the face the Founders left him with. Now Gowron knows he’s someone to be reckoned with, and given Gowron’s enormous lapse of failing to notice that his own right-hand man has been replaced by a changeling, it’s nice that he’s Klingon enough to appreciate it. I hope Sisko realizes that he needs Odo along not just to coax him back into his old job but because Odo’s really good at it when he isn’t being distracted by plot twists.


  • SabreCliff28

    The reviewer wonders why Jadzia didn’t go on the mission. The explanation is the fact that Terry Farrell has skin sensitives and couldn’t handle the amount of makeup required to resemble a Klingon. She could only be made up with the Trill spots and the Bajoran nose she had in the last part of the Circle trilogy. Nana Visitor herself couldn’t tolerate more than the Bajoran nose due to claustrophobia as she had a lot of difficulty shooting her scenes for the episode “Second Skin” when she had to resemble a Cardassian. It did show at times through her performance, but she toughed it out, though at times she nearly scarred herself trying to remove the makeup on her own before being restrained by the makeup artists, who kept her calmed down as they removed it for her.

    It’s good though that Odo figured out the Founders were deceiving him, proving that being in the Great Link doesn’t always mean they’re completely honest. I did like that they added a little comedy in this, from Kira screwing with Dukat re her pregnancy, not to mention the injoke exchange between her and Bashir (You did this!), then Sisko decking Worf, having him believe he’s challenging him to the death.

    I’m hoping that the retro reviews aren’t going to be every 2 weeks now. This is the second straight episode we had to wait this long for an episode. I think it’s long overdue they should add another reviewer or two for this and the remaining Trek series. With the number of episodes of TNG, DS9, and Voyager, each series on a week or two basis would be covered by one reviewer in over 3 years. Add a couple of more reviewers, with each following episode covered in a number of days, instead of an entire week, and the overall time is significantly reduced.

  • jabohn

    “It’s obvious that the writers realized they had made a big mistake in the previous season…”

    I thought it was common knowledge that the Klingons were forced on the writers by the execs which pushed the Dominion War arc off by 1 season. How they managed to do the Klingon thing and then weave them into the Dominion War story was handled quite well I think.

  • ZenMarx

    I agree that Jadzia would have been a better choice than O’Brien, but I find the point that it shouldn’t be so easy for a human to pass as a Klingon a bit moot, considering Arne Darvin managed to pass as a human not once, but twice.

  • Mike

    So, instead of comparing the infiltration to a modern day spy infiltrating a society, you went straight to blackface. Nice. Not remotely accurate, since the original Klingons were actually the closest thing to blackface itself in the entire original series, and getting into those characters always meant donning the make-up… and in context, they aren’t doing a comedy or drama performance, they’re conducting espionage…. in disguise, you twit. Blackface… what a stupid thing to even say.

  • Guest

    Indeed a wrongheaded and potentially offensive comment. She really needs an editor.

  • SJayStar

    Leave it to dogpoo to complain about one statement that other readers didn’t notice the first time reading.

  • Mike

    The only people that didn’t notice it were morons like you that lack reading comprehension skills. She wrote it, I commented on it. If you weren’t smart enough to notice the existence of her comment the “first” time you read this drivel, well, sorry… maybe you could have it translated into a review that doesn’t use words with more than double syllables… I don’t know the answer for you… but just because you didn’t notice the statement doesn’t mean I didn’t and that I can’t respond to it, genius.

    But, I have to ask, why the new name, chum? I thought posting under a different name, regardless of whether we know it is you, was somehow the worst offense someone could perpetrate at this Star Trek site? Great job maintaining your consistency, Catpiss Kiwi.

  • SJayStar

    And great job missing my point, dogpoo. It certainly stands to reason that someone with the intellectual capacity of dogpoo would complain about some ill-chosen words as if that invalidates the rest of this drivel. At least I don’t create sock-puppet accounts to agree with me and to thumbs-up my comments. Great job maintaining your consistency, dogpoo.

  • Mike

    “And great job missing my point, dogpoo. It certainly stands to reason that someone with the intellectual capacity of dogpoo would complain about some ill-chosen words as if that invalidates the rest of this drivel.”


    I don’t quite understand your perspective here. If you suggest it’s drivel, your words, not mine, then you’re suggesting the review is drivel? So, what you’re saying is that while I have an issue with the review, my issue is not worthwhile, meanwhile, the rest of the review is drivel… but not because of why I said. Is that about right? Because in English that’s what you just said…

    Or, are you suggesting that me going on about blackface and whatnot is drivel? Because clearly they weren’t doing the Klingon subterfuge as some slight at the Klingons as a race. I mean… that’s preposterous as a notion. But Michelle clearly takes issue with it and brings up blackface, suggesting only competent actors like Hertzler save modern Klingons from being a caricature tantamount to blackface…. that’s exactly what she said… and that’s stupid. If you don’t like that perspective, that’s your right, catpiss kiwi. It’s also my right to have my opinion that Michelle is a nutball leftist who can’t see the forest for the trees. I guess we each have our cross to bear, eh?

  • SJayStar

    Just because I neglected to put drivel in quotation marks doesn’t invalidate my underlying point, dogpoo.

    And thanks for reminding me that you think anything considered leftist is bad, Mister Ugly American Dogpoo.

  • SJStar

    People are clearly getting pretty damn sick of your consistent condescending bigotry.

    SJayStar plainly isn’t me, stinker, and that should instead leave you very red-faced.

    Facile arguments like this ‘blackface’ one here is to just piss everyone off, and that is likely an example of deliberate and child-like attention seeking. For a proven xenophobe and bigot, this ridiculous innocuous argument over the word ‘blackface’ is simple a ruse — being excuse to try and reverse this now obvious character flaw in you.

    As for people mimicking others, well what goes around come around. Onya digbat!

  • Mike

    Hard to tell when neither of you writes in actual English.

  • Just a guest

    I agree with you Mike, despite disagreeing with you on other subjects, its also very obvious that SJStar and SJayStar are the same “person”, especially when one has been reading Michelle’s so-called reviews for a while. This is one of the worst I have ever read, this nonsensical linking of Klingons with blackface, which is worse than Michelle claiming Kirk’s “Everyone is human” line was bigoted, or her constant Garak is gay crap.

  • SJStar

    Nice slight, but I’m not SJayStar here. How do we know that “Just a guest” is Mike or SJayStar too? He was the stinking turd who started this mimicry and was caught doing so. How can anyone trust this proven bigot and xenophobic American prick when he has already shown him being untrustworthy?

  • Just a guest

    You can tell I an not Mike because I am the same “Just a Guest” who called Mike a dickhead in a story last week. I can tell you and SJayStar are the same person because no one else here has ever used “dogpoo” as an insult, ever, pretty much everyone else has shown they have better imaginations than that. One final bit, your constant anti-American hate speech is the very definition of bigotry and xenophobia, and in and of itself should be a bannable offense.

  • SJStar

    I’m not SJayStar here.

  • SJStar

    Judge, jury and executioner.. Must be a fraking American.
    Time and again. I don’t hate Americans, except this stinking turd. Also “dogpoo” is not exclusive to me.

  • Just a guest

    “Must be a fraking American” Yet more hate speech from you, you seem utterly incapable of recognizing your own bigotry, sad, very sad, I almost pity you, almost but not quite. For the record I am not an American, I am a citizen of a completely different sovereign nation, and I do not feel any need at all to reveal which one, especially to you.

  • SJStar

    Mike is the stinking turd here not you. Wanna join him? Keep it up.

    SJayStar here ain’t me.

  • Just a guest

    Ooooh, more threats from an anonymous person spewing hate speech from a keyboard, I’m so very, very scared (being sarcastic, in case you couldn’t tell). You do not scare me, never have, never will, and you will not have any influence whatsoever on what I think, feel, or say, ever. No one on this good Earth has any right to attempt to pressure me not to speak my mind (which you just attempted) and no one ever will.

    What you seem to be missing is that I am telling you that the way you talk to anyone and everyone here is completely unforgivable, no one on the entire planet deserves this kind of abuse from anyone, and this reprehensible behavior will never be alright, and the fact that this constant hate speech is coming from a supposed Star Trek fan just makes it worse. No matter what you think you are spewing hate speech, which is defined as attacking someone, verbally, physically, or otherwise, based on their religion, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, nationality, or any other such factor. Your statements about “typical American turds” and so forth fall precisely under that definition, and no amount of arguing from you will ever change that. There is no place for hate in our future, and there never will be.

    But hey go ahead, attack me some more, maybe it will get the owners of this site to pay attention for once and realize that there is NO PLACE for hate speech on a Trek website, or anywhere else for that matter, and I don’t care where the source is nor who the target is. I would say the same to an American of African descent who was making statements about “typical white people” or “killing cracker babies”, an American of European descent ranting about “g—d–n N—-s”, a NZ citizen complaining about “those JAFA a–holes” (and yes I know what JAFA means to a NZ native), or any other form bigotry can or has taken in human history.

    Now I have made my best effort to educate and inform you, any further attacks from you will be ignored, if you want to apologize for your behavior, and swear never to attack someone for their nation of origin, or any other factor which falls under the banner of hate speech (as listed above) then perhaps we can debate about Trek at some point, but that is absolutely all I am willing to discuss with you.

  • Enterprise1981

    Kind of ironic that SJStar vehemently denies being SJayStar, yet expresses the same sentiments and even gave his doppelganger’s posts a thumbs up.

    I didn’t notice the “blackface” reference myself the first time around until Mike pointed it out. It sure did seem inappropriate in this particular context, but certainly not worth letting this juvenile argument drag out all week.

  • SJStar

    Look. This whole crap started with Mike attacking me and claiming I’m the avatar SJayStar, and then you claiming this to be true. Again I am not the one who posted under this name. If I ignore these words I’m damned, if I defend myself I’m damn too.

    I have no argument with you and no reason to argue with you, so why do you persist?

    The only real despicable turd here is Mike. Leave it at that. Don’t like it. Tough!

    Note: The only way to prove this is via the moderator to check the IP addresses of SJStar and SJayStar.You will find they are not the same. If you can prove otherwise on actual evidence, then do so, otherwise SHUT UP!!

  • SJStar

    This whole debacle is only on the single unproven premise that SJayStar is the same person as SJStar. As Mike here has actually only been the one to have already sock-puppetted accounts, then why trust him?

    Clearly nothing is beyond this stinking turd, and fighting amongst ourselves just makes this prick happier. He actually started the crap within this thread, I’m only defending myself from this untrustworthy coward and bigot.

    Tell you what. Happy to discuss Star Trek with any of you here, but I’d suggest if I do please ignore the stinking New Mexican turd when I’m involved.

  • Enterprise1981

    “Happy to discuss Star Trek with any of you here, but I’d suggest if I do
    please ignore the stinking New Mexican turd when I’m involved.”

    Try taking your own advice then.

  • Mike

    LOL I was refraining from giving any further oxygen to you or this stupidity, but I can’t help myself…

    First, let’s be clear, if I wanted to, I could post as 5 different people from 5 different accounts using 5 different IP addresses all in the next 5 minutes… if I wanted to. However, unlike some people, I don’t really get a kick out of talking to myself. The point being, using a different name or a different IP address doesn’t change a simple fact: You, SJStar and you, SJayStar are the same person.

    Second, how do I know that? Well, let me count the ways… it started with the very first post. SJayStar not only called me dogpoo, all one word, all lowercase, and used a pointless participle at the end of his sentence… just like SJStar constantly does. Then, it continued when SJayStar responded and didn’t deny being you, but rather, made a very interesting claim:

    “At least I don’t create sock-puppet accounts to agree with me and to thumbs-up my comments.”

    Keep that comment in mind, folks…….

    Further evidence was the complete lack of clear English used, just like you. And then you came into the thread… and here it got even more interesting. See, this wasn’t the first time someone has “pretended” to be you. In fact, two other times prior to this event, people have decided to register fake accounts that mimic your name and post comments that were negative toward me and over the top. And, what did you do the instant you saw those two accounts and what they were doing? You were incensed and demanded that they stop and cried about how it wasn’t you!!!! And yet here, shockingly, not only do you not throw a fit about someone using your name, but you basically try to act like me accepting that it was you was somehow something that should have made me angry or red in the face. Your games of idiocy are sad, and that’s about all, I’m afraid… I hate to break that to you…

    But, moving on… So, after you didn’t throw a fit about your doppelganger for the first time ever, you went on to basically turn this into me being mean to you… which is unfathomably stupid for anyone that has been paying any sort of attention. And, just like John (not McCain) before him, you took someone who doesn’t remotely agree with my opinions and made them fundamentally cling to me instead of you just by virtue of you being the xenophobic asshole you accuse me of… That’s not to say that Just a Guest here will agree with me on anything or everything, nor do I expect him to. John (not McCain) doesn’t, and neither does Enteprise1981. They have their own minds and come to their own conclusions… which is pretty much universally that I might be a conservative with a very clear bent and a willingness to say it, perhaps ad nauseum, but I’m not the shithole windbag you are… and if I’m wrong about that conclusion, they’re free to correct it.

    But then lastly, and here’s the kicker, you want to pretend that IP addresses are the only way to tell who someone is… Well, chum, I was once identified using wholly separate names between here and IGN… Speech patterns and common word usage are wonderful analytic tools… And that takes us back to that fun little comment from SJayStar… you know, the guy that isn’t you? Well, here again is what he said and following that is a comment from you:

    “At least I don’t create sock-puppet accounts to agree with me and to thumbs-up my comments.”
    “As Mike here has actually only been the one to have already sock-puppetted accounts, then why trust him?”

    Nah, you two aren’t the same person… people use the term sock-puppet to describe alternate internet aliases all the time…………… and if anyone still listens to and accepts a word you say, they should really re-evaluate their own level of intelligence… psst, it would be lacking.

  • Mike

    I was talking about Star Trek, for the record… every thread this guy or his namesakes enter gets derailed into non-Star Trek talk… I’d much rather discuss the review and Star Trek.

    The depiction of original series Klingons as guys with darkened make-up is an interesting one, but one we will never have while this joker is around… unless you want to. I’m happy to compartmentalize him if anyone ever wants to discuss the subject at hand while one of SJ(ay)Star’s tantrums remains ongoing.

  • Mike

    Oh, and lastly, to prove what I’ve been saying all along, this post has clearly been made by me, Mike. I am going to leave this post up as me for a few days. At that point, I will click to delete the post. Unfortunately, the way Disqus works, that will only delete the attribution of the post to me, Mike, and will leave the post but attributed to a Guest… That’s what happened, that’s what will happen, and I’ve explained this consistently since the moment it happened… Of course, you’re an idiot who can’t win a debate within the confines of Star Trek (and that, folks is where this REALLY started, him being unable to actually discuss Star Trek and win on the merits of the discussion therein.) so you invent this bs… well, when I delete my attribution, and it still says Guest, I suppose I’ll somehow again be guilty of something other than what I’ve just laid out there… but, whatever.

  • Enterprise1981

    In the absence of evidence against the accused, character is sufficient proof of guilt. That’s an unfortunate reality even in a criminal justice system where one is “innocent proven guilty”. You backed yourself into that corner by taking offense at and picking fights over the comments of someone who validates your preconceived notions of all Americans as racist, homophobic, ethnocentric d-bags. It’s one thing to disagree with the cluster of Star Trek fandom who believes Garak was gay and that he was “flirting” with Bashir. I have nothing against same sex coupling, I just don’t fully subscribe to that notion mostly because IT NEVER OCCURED TO ME that Garak might have been gay back when Deep Space 9 was on TV. It’s quite another to say legalizing gay marriage will destroy America’s cultural identity. That’s just plain being ridiculous.

    That being said, discussing Star Trek on these comment forums can start by posting a comment about the episode being reviewed, rather than picking fights with people who represent what most foreigners dislike about America. I’ve had my disagreements with Mike, but I have not let that have this kind of carryover effect that you, SJStar, have been doing these last few Retro Reviews.

  • SJStar

    Get stuffed, dogpoo. It is not funny. Deadshits like you pretending to be innocent as a lamb, when your act as the obnoxious prick. You mimicked me before as SJStar, and that is how you became nicknamed dogpoo. Say what you and do what you want, you can’t get away with being an unethical deadshit turd.

  • SJStar

    Drop dead, deadshit.

  • SJStar

    Fracking coward. No amount of spin doesn’t change the fact that you are an untrustworthy prick.

  • SJStar

    I’m offended by your statement;”who validates your preconceived notions of all Americans as racist, homophobic, ethnocentric d-bags.” I have never said this. The only dickhead who this mostly applies too is this doopoo.

    As for being railroaded in this crap just because some stinking deadshit thinks it is funny to mimic me. Doopoo here has done this before, was caught out, and is again clearly capable of this crumby underhand behaviour. (He is called doopoo because of this low act that he did months ago.) As I promised, I give no quarter in this, and so this stinking prick will be exposed at every opportunity.

  • SJStar

    “anonymous person” “Just a guest” Ditto.

  • Mike

    That’s a straight up lie. Provide the link, asshole. Each and every time someone has pretended to be you I’ve condemned the action. So, try that bullshit somewhere else. Provide the link.

  • Mike

    Are there double negatives in your world?

  • Mike

    Liar. Provide the link where I’ve pretended to be your dumb ass.

  • SJStar

    Stinking cowardly prick. Can’t even man up for acting like an absolute turd. Shows what a dirtbag you really are.

    You’ve been caught out again. dipshit.

  • SJStar

    At least it is better than being a turd, dickhead.

  • SJStar

    Doopoo. You were caught out being a cowardly prick, and you again want prove!
    We know your a turd, and now we have confirmation you are a coward. Nothing else needs to be said, dickhead.

  • Mike

    Yeah, didn’t think so. You can’t provide the link because no such link exists you piece of shit.

  • Mike

    To be caught again I would have to be caught in the first place, moron… and, since I’ve never done what you’ve accused me of doing, you didn’t catch me then, now, nor ever, because there’s nothing therein to catch you ignorant prick. Talk about man up… provide the non-existent link you cowardly kiwi cunt.