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	<title>Comments on: Retro Review: Explorers</title>
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		<title>By: SJStar</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2013/01/retro-review-explorers/comment-page-1/#comment-11444</link>
		<dc:creator>SJStar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2013 05:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=22358#comment-11444</guid>
		<description>Fair enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2013/01/retro-review-explorers/comment-page-1/#comment-11429</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2013 03:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=22358#comment-11429</guid>
		<description>Well, it&#039;s not exactly a new idea... Captain Randolf was trying to deploy a solar sail to get Yorktown back to spacedock in the wake of the cetacean probe... and that was 1986 in The Voyage Home... And wasn&#039;t there a ship in TNG that was using solar flares as pulses by which they would go to warp? Geordi even comments about being uncomfortable at the thought of no warp engines.... Hell, even Count Dooku uses a ship with a deployable sail in Attack of the Clones... It&#039;s not a new idea, nor is it on Michael Pillar... Blame the scientists who have postulated that ships could use solar sails to collect energy in deep space. They didn&#039;t just make this idea up... Something tells me you folks complaining about the solar sail have never visited NASA... Had you, the idea would seem less silly and more realistic, at least in concept... that it takes you to warp is the iffy part... not that it uses a sail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, it&#8217;s not exactly a new idea&#8230; Captain Randolf was trying to deploy a solar sail to get Yorktown back to spacedock in the wake of the cetacean probe&#8230; and that was 1986 in The Voyage Home&#8230; And wasn&#8217;t there a ship in TNG that was using solar flares as pulses by which they would go to warp? Geordi even comments about being uncomfortable at the thought of no warp engines&#8230;. Hell, even Count Dooku uses a ship with a deployable sail in Attack of the Clones&#8230; It&#8217;s not a new idea, nor is it on Michael Pillar&#8230; Blame the scientists who have postulated that ships could use solar sails to collect energy in deep space. They didn&#8217;t just make this idea up&#8230; Something tells me you folks complaining about the solar sail have never visited NASA&#8230; Had you, the idea would seem less silly and more realistic, at least in concept&#8230; that it takes you to warp is the iffy part&#8230; not that it uses a sail.</p>
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		<title>By: garak</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2013/01/retro-review-explorers/comment-page-1/#comment-11426</link>
		<dc:creator>garak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2013 01:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=22358#comment-11426</guid>
		<description>Has anyone else really noticed Trek&#039;s fascination with this whole &quot;sails in space&quot; idea. I bet it was that Michael Pillar crap. He did it again a few years later in insurrection with that stupid &quot;Collector&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has anyone else really noticed Trek&#8217;s fascination with this whole &#8220;sails in space&#8221; idea. I bet it was that Michael Pillar crap. He did it again a few years later in insurrection with that stupid &#8220;Collector&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2013/01/retro-review-explorers/comment-page-1/#comment-11396</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2013 22:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=22358#comment-11396</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t disagree with much of what you say, just some things here and there. For instance, we have a space station, it&#039;s not unreasonable to assume the ancient Bajorans also had one, and, if the ship couldn&#039;t have launched from the surface, it must have launched from orbit. We don&#039;t really know that much about ancient Bajor, mind you, other than several references to Bajor being an advanced civilization while humans were still hunting and gathering... So, the idea that they&#039;ve technologically regressed is somewhat baked in, isn&#039;t it? Also, if they&#039;re achieving warp speeds they&#039;re not using pre-warp technology... they&#039;re using a different means of warp technology. Because the greeks and others used triremes with banks of oars doesn&#039;t negate the existence of sailing ships... To my recollection it&#039;s never established one way or another when Bajor achieved warp travel through an anti-matter reaction. And, for that matter, it&#039;s never really explained how this ship went to warp speeds using the Tachyons... it&#039;s entirely possible it does create a warp effect... who&#039;s to say? At the end of the day, you&#039;re absolutely right, it&#039;s meant more for the story and less for the science...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t disagree with much of what you say, just some things here and there. For instance, we have a space station, it&#8217;s not unreasonable to assume the ancient Bajorans also had one, and, if the ship couldn&#8217;t have launched from the surface, it must have launched from orbit. We don&#8217;t really know that much about ancient Bajor, mind you, other than several references to Bajor being an advanced civilization while humans were still hunting and gathering&#8230; So, the idea that they&#8217;ve technologically regressed is somewhat baked in, isn&#8217;t it? Also, if they&#8217;re achieving warp speeds they&#8217;re not using pre-warp technology&#8230; they&#8217;re using a different means of warp technology. Because the greeks and others used triremes with banks of oars doesn&#8217;t negate the existence of sailing ships&#8230; To my recollection it&#8217;s never established one way or another when Bajor achieved warp travel through an anti-matter reaction. And, for that matter, it&#8217;s never really explained how this ship went to warp speeds using the Tachyons&#8230; it&#8217;s entirely possible it does create a warp effect&#8230; who&#8217;s to say? At the end of the day, you&#8217;re absolutely right, it&#8217;s meant more for the story and less for the science&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Enterprise1981</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2013/01/retro-review-explorers/comment-page-1/#comment-11393</link>
		<dc:creator>Enterprise1981</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2013 20:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=22358#comment-11393</guid>
		<description>Despite a lot of the obvious flaws, &quot;Explorers&quot; made for a semi-decent filler episode with a few pivotal points of certain character arcs--some father-son bonding, Jake offering to play matchmaker for his dad while continuing to take on a niche different from Wesley Crusher&#039;s, introducing Leeta. It is also the one episode between &quot;The Die is Cast&quot; and &quot;The Adversary&quot; I&#039;d recommend skipping. 



The only scene truly worth watching is the latest running joke about the Bashir-O&#039;Brien bromance that started in &quot;Fascination&quot;: 



O&#039;Brien &quot;You&#039;re not an in-between kind of guy. People either love you or hate you. I hated you when we first met. Now, I don&#039;t... I mean I really do... not hate you.&quot;
Bashir: &quot;Thanks. That means a lot.&quot;
O&#039;Brien: &quot;Well, it&#039;s from the heart.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Despite a lot of the obvious flaws, &#8220;Explorers&#8221; made for a semi-decent filler episode with a few pivotal points of certain character arcs&#8211;some father-son bonding, Jake offering to play matchmaker for his dad while continuing to take on a niche different from Wesley Crusher&#8217;s, introducing Leeta. It is also the one episode between &#8220;The Die is Cast&#8221; and &#8220;The Adversary&#8221; I&#8217;d recommend skipping. </p>
<p>The only scene truly worth watching is the latest running joke about the Bashir-O&#8217;Brien bromance that started in &#8220;Fascination&#8221;: </p>
<p>O&#8217;Brien &#8220;You&#8217;re not an in-between kind of guy. People either love you or hate you. I hated you when we first met. Now, I don&#8217;t&#8230; I mean I really do&#8230; not hate you.&#8221;<br />
Bashir: &#8220;Thanks. That means a lot.&#8221;<br />
O&#8217;Brien: &#8220;Well, it&#8217;s from the heart.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: SJStar</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2013/01/retro-review-explorers/comment-page-1/#comment-11390</link>
		<dc:creator>SJStar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2013 18:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=22358#comment-11390</guid>
		<description>Some good points. However, the Phoenix was technically a spacecraft designed for the rigours of launch. This sail barge was a fragile thing. It is clear the producers and writers had ocean-going ships in mind when they wrote this story and the ventures of the pioneer explorers. Perhaps it would be possible to explore their solar system, but to go to another star system using pre-warp technology is stretching this nonsense a little too far.

Star Trek is supposed to be our possible ideal future. Treating the viewer as mindless morons is what makes me touchy. DS9 has some truly brilliant stuff. &#039;Explorers&#039; is not one of them IMO.

Tachyons are postulated particle in real life that go faster than light, which have known consequences for established temporal physics.   It Trek they are commonly abused in their purpose, often as a plot point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some good points. However, the Phoenix was technically a spacecraft designed for the rigours of launch. This sail barge was a fragile thing. It is clear the producers and writers had ocean-going ships in mind when they wrote this story and the ventures of the pioneer explorers. Perhaps it would be possible to explore their solar system, but to go to another star system using pre-warp technology is stretching this nonsense a little too far.</p>
<p>Star Trek is supposed to be our possible ideal future. Treating the viewer as mindless morons is what makes me touchy. DS9 has some truly brilliant stuff. &#8216;Explorers&#8217; is not one of them IMO.</p>
<p>Tachyons are postulated particle in real life that go faster than light, which have known consequences for established temporal physics.   It Trek they are commonly abused in their purpose, often as a plot point.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2013/01/retro-review-explorers/comment-page-1/#comment-11381</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2013 16:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=22358#comment-11381</guid>
		<description>As the guest pointed out, tachyons are real things and they operate at faster than light speeds. If you want to pretend they&#039;re about time travel, that&#039;s fine, but that&#039;s a fictional attribution to a real particle...

How did the Phoenix get into orbit on a planet that had been ravaged by the third world war? They used their limited resources and pooled them... Lily, in fact, talks about the process of getting the base components for the cockpit as she is awestruck by Enterprise-E. Additionally, the Baku are a race of people, and not the first in Star Trek, to abandon their advanced science for a more agrarian philosophy... Either that or Bajor clearly went through a series of dark ages... There were plenty of engineering marvels that the Romans constructed that were not matched until the 20th Century... Does that mean that because 16th century Europe couldn&#039;t do what 3rd century BC Europe could do that the Romans are fictional?

It seems more to me like you&#039;re just threatened by the idea that some of your bedrock notions aren&#039;t true. I mean, are you distant cousins of Columbus? What stake do you have in whether a Viking ever landed on Newfoundland or not? You seem awfully touchy about it all.......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As the guest pointed out, tachyons are real things and they operate at faster than light speeds. If you want to pretend they&#8217;re about time travel, that&#8217;s fine, but that&#8217;s a fictional attribution to a real particle&#8230;</p>
<p>How did the Phoenix get into orbit on a planet that had been ravaged by the third world war? They used their limited resources and pooled them&#8230; Lily, in fact, talks about the process of getting the base components for the cockpit as she is awestruck by Enterprise-E. Additionally, the Baku are a race of people, and not the first in Star Trek, to abandon their advanced science for a more agrarian philosophy&#8230; Either that or Bajor clearly went through a series of dark ages&#8230; There were plenty of engineering marvels that the Romans constructed that were not matched until the 20th Century&#8230; Does that mean that because 16th century Europe couldn&#8217;t do what 3rd century BC Europe could do that the Romans are fictional?</p>
<p>It seems more to me like you&#8217;re just threatened by the idea that some of your bedrock notions aren&#8217;t true. I mean, are you distant cousins of Columbus? What stake do you have in whether a Viking ever landed on Newfoundland or not? You seem awfully touchy about it all&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Guest</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2013/01/retro-review-explorers/comment-page-1/#comment-11372</link>
		<dc:creator>Guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2013 01:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=22358#comment-11372</guid>
		<description>Tachyons are particles that are supposed to be limited to faster-than-light speeds. I don&#039;t know how a &quot;sail&quot; would catch them, but I&#039;m sure we could dummy up an answer involving subspace. 

As for the Bajoran ship escaping the planet&#039;s atmosphere, it is possible it was built in space.

&quot;Also if the discovery of warp speed donates a civilisation rise to prominence to space-fairing cultures in the galaxy, then why are the Bajorans still have such primitive space technologies and the Cardassians having superior ones?&quot;



The Bajoran internal religious and political strife and subsequent devastating invasion are good reasons; as for before that, not everyone immediately builds a war fleet with their best technology. Cardassia, with its totalitarian government, did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tachyons are particles that are supposed to be limited to faster-than-light speeds. I don&#8217;t know how a &#8220;sail&#8221; would catch them, but I&#8217;m sure we could dummy up an answer involving subspace. </p>
<p>As for the Bajoran ship escaping the planet&#8217;s atmosphere, it is possible it was built in space.</p>
<p>&#8220;Also if the discovery of warp speed donates a civilisation rise to prominence to space-fairing cultures in the galaxy, then why are the Bajorans still have such primitive space technologies and the Cardassians having superior ones?&#8221;</p>
<p>The Bajoran internal religious and political strife and subsequent devastating invasion are good reasons; as for before that, not everyone immediately builds a war fleet with their best technology. Cardassia, with its totalitarian government, did.</p>
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		<title>By: SJStar</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2013/01/retro-review-explorers/comment-page-1/#comment-11366</link>
		<dc:creator>SJStar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 19:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=22358#comment-11366</guid>
		<description>I truly despise this DS9 episode. The claim that Bajorians reached Cardassia by such a spacecraft is plainly ludicrous. How the heck did they get from the surface of Bajor into orbit, then have enough energy to escape their planet, their star, then beyond their solar system? 


Clearly the distance to Cardassia is light-years away, which takes considerable time even at warp-speed let alone a sail-craft driven by some mysterious technobabbled wind. (Tachyons too, are supposed to be time particles not light particle (photons).)


Even if the could get around all this, it would take &lt;i&gt;millions&lt;/i&gt; upon millions of years to get there &#8212; dumping the relativistic limitations of sub-warp / impulse travel. Warp speed works by twisting space not by being blown along by the celestial wind. (Were it true, then wouldn&#039;t they be using this technology as a back-up? Also if the discovery of warp speed donates a civilisation rise to prominence to space-fairing cultures in the galaxy, then why are the Bajorans still have such primitive space technologies and the Cardassians having superior ones? 


The science here is plainly stupid, where ye&#039; old common-sense is thrown out the window. Dukat, like any intelligent person, is right to be sceptical. (The producers of DS9 clearly think their audience is equally dumb, too, BTW.)


I think the story here is likely a mirror (actually a parody) of the Polynesians crossing the Pacific to occupy Hawaii, Tahiti then New Zealand. Crossing the ocean is one thing. Crossing the gulf between the stars is another.    

The second thing I also really despise is the whole underlying reason behind the Bajorans claims, and is based on being the &#039;presumed&#039; old culture having the higher ground. It is plainly like our recent modern history of the last two or four centuries (or longer) of the displacement of indigenous peoples and their claims of ownership and spiritual connectiveness to &#039;their&#039; presumed god-given &#039;Promise Land.&#039; I.e. Jews to Israel, the American Indians or Australian aboriginals, or even the now extinct Neanderthals. The storyline is basically to &#039;stick-it-up&#039; the Cardassians for their illegal and immoral occupation of Bajor, all in the hope of proving some superiority over the once occupiers. 

All this story is fable, just like mostly fictional stories of discoverers; like that of pre-Columbus America, pre-Cook east coast Australia, or god&#039;s gift of &#039;sacred land.&#039; I hate being lectured too, and this DS9 reviewed here presents it in exactly these terms. Frankly the presumed stirring nationalistic singing of &quot;Jerusalem&quot; (sung like it is some Viking chant) is almost like spitting in your face.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I truly despise this DS9 episode. The claim that Bajorians reached Cardassia by such a spacecraft is plainly ludicrous. How the heck did they get from the surface of Bajor into orbit, then have enough energy to escape their planet, their star, then beyond their solar system? </p>
<p>Clearly the distance to Cardassia is light-years away, which takes considerable time even at warp-speed let alone a sail-craft driven by some mysterious technobabbled wind. (Tachyons too, are supposed to be time particles not light particle (photons).)</p>
<p>Even if the could get around all this, it would take <i>millions</i> upon millions of years to get there &#8212; dumping the relativistic limitations of sub-warp / impulse travel. Warp speed works by twisting space not by being blown along by the celestial wind. (Were it true, then wouldn&#8217;t they be using this technology as a back-up? Also if the discovery of warp speed donates a civilisation rise to prominence to space-fairing cultures in the galaxy, then why are the Bajorans still have such primitive space technologies and the Cardassians having superior ones? </p>
<p>The science here is plainly stupid, where ye&#8217; old common-sense is thrown out the window. Dukat, like any intelligent person, is right to be sceptical. (The producers of DS9 clearly think their audience is equally dumb, too, BTW.)</p>
<p>I think the story here is likely a mirror (actually a parody) of the Polynesians crossing the Pacific to occupy Hawaii, Tahiti then New Zealand. Crossing the ocean is one thing. Crossing the gulf between the stars is another.    </p>
<p>The second thing I also really despise is the whole underlying reason behind the Bajorans claims, and is based on being the &#8216;presumed&#8217; old culture having the higher ground. It is plainly like our recent modern history of the last two or four centuries (or longer) of the displacement of indigenous peoples and their claims of ownership and spiritual connectiveness to &#8216;their&#8217; presumed god-given &#8216;Promise Land.&#8217; I.e. Jews to Israel, the American Indians or Australian aboriginals, or even the now extinct Neanderthals. The storyline is basically to &#8216;stick-it-up&#8217; the Cardassians for their illegal and immoral occupation of Bajor, all in the hope of proving some superiority over the once occupiers. </p>
<p>All this story is fable, just like mostly fictional stories of discoverers; like that of pre-Columbus America, pre-Cook east coast Australia, or god&#8217;s gift of &#8216;sacred land.&#8217; I hate being lectured too, and this DS9 reviewed here presents it in exactly these terms. Frankly the presumed stirring nationalistic singing of &#8220;Jerusalem&#8221; (sung like it is some Viking chant) is almost like spitting in your face.</p>
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