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	<title>Comments on: Star Trek: Renegades Kickstarter</title>
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		<title>By: Polaris01313-1</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2012/09/star-trek-renegades-kickstarter/comment-page-1/#comment-9902</link>
		<dc:creator>Polaris01313-1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2012 22:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=20306#comment-9902</guid>
		<description>http://startrekrenegades.com/?page_id=130

Someone once said that those who fail to learn from history are often doomed to repeat it. 

First, Fred Freiberger made some serious errors in judgement during the third season of the original Star Trek. 

Second, in the late 1990&#039;s and early 2000&#039;s, Star Trek ended up going through a period of franchise fatigue. A period caused by the mismanagement of the science fiction franchise at the hands of Rick Berman and the former executive staff at Paramount Pictures. Certain elements that contributed to this period involved the recycling of the same old story plots for the unnecessary Star Trek spin-offs: Deep Space Nine and Voyager. Others involved the DS9 staff stealing ideas from its sci-fi rival Babylon 5, in order to help boost their own show&#039;s declining ratings.

Third, the writers for the prequel series Enterprise, did not do their homework when it came down to historical research for the sake of  series continuity.

Studio greed and taking way too many trips to the well can often lead to a franchise being milked dry. Let alone having run its course.

Fortunately for Star Trek fans, the noble, highly commendable, admirable, and brilliantly professional efforts of James Cawley and J.J. Abrams(along with their respective production companies and staff)breathed new life and energy into Star Trek after that long period. The results being the highly successful internet series Star Trek-New Voyages/Phase 2 and the 2009 box-office smash hit prequel/reboot.

It has also helped spawn other successful series such as Starship Exeter, the UK based Starship Intrepid, Starship Ajax, and the soon to be released Star Trek-Axanar.

Unfortunately, certain production companies, run by corrupted individuals with redneck mentalities, have tried to take advantage of these successful productions and twist and pervert them into something that is totally the opposite of all of the hard work, professionalism, ethics, and standards that Gene Roddenberry, James Cawley, and J.J. Abrams have helped establish and continue with the legendary science fiction series.

Farragut Films is one of those production companies. 

And now, Farragut Films new business partner, one Vic Mignogna, is now involved in another Star Trek fan film series. One that is also destined to be, like the upcoming Star Trek Continues series, a huge flop. 

http://trekmovie.com/2012/03/26/new-star-trek-fan-film-to-feature-chris-doohan-as-scotty-and-mythbusters-imahara-as-sulu/#comment-4656857

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=6187033#post6187033

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=169732

http://www.facebook.com/startrekphase2/posts/10150828754860934

http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=5440252#post5440252 

Made in association with Sky Conway(who released the Star Trek fan film Of Gods And Men), Star Trek - Renegades(like DS9 and Voyager)is another clear sign of the Star Trek franchise being milked dry for all of its worth. 

As to why Walter Koenig(who brought a sense of closure to the character of Chekov by saying good-bye in the P2 episode To Serve All My Days), Gary Graham, Tim Russ, Richard Herd, Ethan Phillips, Robert Picaro, and Garrett Wang are being a part of this twisted farce, it is hard to say. To be honest, it is beyond me.

One thing is an absolute given. Sky Conway has definitely earned a place in the category of those who wish to tarnish the good name of Star Trek. Right up there with Fred Freiberger, Rick Berman, Ronald Moore, Brannon Braga, Vic Mignogna, John Broughton, Michael Bednar, Dennis Bailey, and the rest of Farragut Films. 

Honestly, it&#039;s bad enough that the world is in such a shambolic state. Do we really need to see Star Trek go through such a fate a second time? At the hands of malcontents who have no sense of honesty, integrity, and decency, whatsoever?

I think not!

Star Trek is supposed to be about resolving problems and issues in a decent, respectful, and peaceful sort of fashion. It is not about twisting, tarnishing, and perverting it into something petty and contemptuous.

Starship Farragut, Star Trek Continues, and Star Trek Renegades are clearly signs of such misuse, negativity and a waste of constructive purposes. They have already tarnished their reputations and careers by associating themselves with Mignogna and his toxic, narcicisstic, controversial and unethical history. 

Star Trek and its legacy are nothing of those negative qualities.

Stick with Star Trek-New Voyages/Phase 2. The ONLY Star Trek fan film that has professional acting and movie/television experience. More importantly, the positive ideals and qualities set forth by Gene Roddenberry back in the mid-1960&#039;s. Including and up to honesty and integrity that will last into the 23rd Century and Beyond!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://startrekrenegades.com/?page_id=130" rel="nofollow">http://startrekrenegades.com/?page_id=130</a></p>
<p>Someone once said that those who fail to learn from history are often doomed to repeat it. </p>
<p>First, Fred Freiberger made some serious errors in judgement during the third season of the original Star Trek. </p>
<p>Second, in the late 1990&#8242;s and early 2000&#8242;s, Star Trek ended up going through a period of franchise fatigue. A period caused by the mismanagement of the science fiction franchise at the hands of Rick Berman and the former executive staff at Paramount Pictures. Certain elements that contributed to this period involved the recycling of the same old story plots for the unnecessary Star Trek spin-offs: Deep Space Nine and Voyager. Others involved the DS9 staff stealing ideas from its sci-fi rival Babylon 5, in order to help boost their own show&#8217;s declining ratings.</p>
<p>Third, the writers for the prequel series Enterprise, did not do their homework when it came down to historical research for the sake of  series continuity.</p>
<p>Studio greed and taking way too many trips to the well can often lead to a franchise being milked dry. Let alone having run its course.</p>
<p>Fortunately for Star Trek fans, the noble, highly commendable, admirable, and brilliantly professional efforts of James Cawley and J.J. Abrams(along with their respective production companies and staff)breathed new life and energy into Star Trek after that long period. The results being the highly successful internet series Star Trek-New Voyages/Phase 2 and the 2009 box-office smash hit prequel/reboot.</p>
<p>It has also helped spawn other successful series such as Starship Exeter, the UK based Starship Intrepid, Starship Ajax, and the soon to be released Star Trek-Axanar.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, certain production companies, run by corrupted individuals with redneck mentalities, have tried to take advantage of these successful productions and twist and pervert them into something that is totally the opposite of all of the hard work, professionalism, ethics, and standards that Gene Roddenberry, James Cawley, and J.J. Abrams have helped establish and continue with the legendary science fiction series.</p>
<p>Farragut Films is one of those production companies. </p>
<p>And now, Farragut Films new business partner, one Vic Mignogna, is now involved in another Star Trek fan film series. One that is also destined to be, like the upcoming Star Trek Continues series, a huge flop. </p>
<p><a href="http://trekmovie.com/2012/03/26/new-star-trek-fan-film-to-feature-chris-doohan-as-scotty-and-mythbusters-imahara-as-sulu/#comment-4656857" rel="nofollow">http://trekmovie.com/2012/03/26/new-star-trek-fan-film-to-feature-chris-doohan-as-scotty-and-mythbusters-imahara-as-sulu/#comment-4656857</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=6187033#post6187033" rel="nofollow">http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=6187033#post6187033</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=169732" rel="nofollow">http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=169732</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.facebook.com/startrekphase2/posts/10150828754860934" rel="nofollow">http://www.facebook.com/startrekphase2/posts/10150828754860934</a></p>
<p><a href="http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=5440252#post5440252" rel="nofollow">http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=5440252#post5440252</a> </p>
<p>Made in association with Sky Conway(who released the Star Trek fan film Of Gods And Men), Star Trek &#8211; Renegades(like DS9 and Voyager)is another clear sign of the Star Trek franchise being milked dry for all of its worth. </p>
<p>As to why Walter Koenig(who brought a sense of closure to the character of Chekov by saying good-bye in the P2 episode To Serve All My Days), Gary Graham, Tim Russ, Richard Herd, Ethan Phillips, Robert Picaro, and Garrett Wang are being a part of this twisted farce, it is hard to say. To be honest, it is beyond me.</p>
<p>One thing is an absolute given. Sky Conway has definitely earned a place in the category of those who wish to tarnish the good name of Star Trek. Right up there with Fred Freiberger, Rick Berman, Ronald Moore, Brannon Braga, Vic Mignogna, John Broughton, Michael Bednar, Dennis Bailey, and the rest of Farragut Films. </p>
<p>Honestly, it&#8217;s bad enough that the world is in such a shambolic state. Do we really need to see Star Trek go through such a fate a second time? At the hands of malcontents who have no sense of honesty, integrity, and decency, whatsoever?</p>
<p>I think not!</p>
<p>Star Trek is supposed to be about resolving problems and issues in a decent, respectful, and peaceful sort of fashion. It is not about twisting, tarnishing, and perverting it into something petty and contemptuous.</p>
<p>Starship Farragut, Star Trek Continues, and Star Trek Renegades are clearly signs of such misuse, negativity and a waste of constructive purposes. They have already tarnished their reputations and careers by associating themselves with Mignogna and his toxic, narcicisstic, controversial and unethical history. </p>
<p>Star Trek and its legacy are nothing of those negative qualities.</p>
<p>Stick with Star Trek-New Voyages/Phase 2. The ONLY Star Trek fan film that has professional acting and movie/television experience. More importantly, the positive ideals and qualities set forth by Gene Roddenberry back in the mid-1960&#8242;s. Including and up to honesty and integrity that will last into the 23rd Century and Beyond!</p>
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		<title>By: hostile_17</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2012/09/star-trek-renegades-kickstarter/comment-page-1/#comment-9224</link>
		<dc:creator>hostile_17</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2012 14:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=20306#comment-9224</guid>
		<description>I do get paid for doing my job... but then I don&#039;t go out and say &quot;Hey general public, please pay me to do what I want.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do get paid for doing my job&#8230; but then I don&#8217;t go out and say &#8220;Hey general public, please pay me to do what I want.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Clements</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2012/09/star-trek-renegades-kickstarter/comment-page-1/#comment-9068</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Clements</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2012 03:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=20306#comment-9068</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;ll like RUR. The play is an artefact but filled with interesting ideas (you can read it &amp; War of the Newts in legal, unrestricted translations at http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/c/capek/karel/); &amp; Kerwin did a great job with the similarly ideas-driven Yesterday was a Lie. Given the Russ/Masterson past, i&#039;m actually a little surprised Chase ISN&#039;T attached to Renegades already; but perhaps the dual commitment of getting RUR up &amp; this &quot;mystery project&quot; she&#039;s shooting right now may be keeping her out. Hopefully that&#039;ll change. She&#039;s a stylish actress &amp; a wonderful person


On the other hand....

Oh, beep, not ANOTHER reboot


Don&#039;t get me wrong - i quite like Singer&#039;s work, generally...  if accurately described, his ST revival proposal (rejected in favour of Abrams&#039; marketing division) was something worth waiting for - but i&#039;m tired of the corporate laziness which finds nothing tedious in rebooting the same beeping project more times than i&#039;ve had hot feeds. Tell me he&#039;s creating something new in the tradition of BSG or ST or B5 (or whatever) &amp; i&#039;m on board immediately; but this idea fills me with all the passionate enthusiasm i usually restrict for ancient mariners who shoot the albatross. I want to run faster than a speeding slug, leap tall daffodils with a single bound &amp; generally overkill this metaphor of total indifference with a thesaurus of misplaced similes; &amp; still can&#039;t communicate in all its Klingon intensity the antagonism i feel right now


Sorry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;ll like RUR. The play is an artefact but filled with interesting ideas (you can read it &amp; War of the Newts in legal, unrestricted translations at <a href="http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/c/capek/karel/" rel="nofollow">http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/c/capek/karel/</a>); &amp; Kerwin did a great job with the similarly ideas-driven Yesterday was a Lie. Given the Russ/Masterson past, i&#8217;m actually a little surprised Chase ISN&#8217;T attached to Renegades already; but perhaps the dual commitment of getting RUR up &amp; this &#8220;mystery project&#8221; she&#8217;s shooting right now may be keeping her out. Hopefully that&#8217;ll change. She&#8217;s a stylish actress &amp; a wonderful person</p>
<p>On the other hand&#8230;.</p>
<p>Oh, beep, not ANOTHER reboot</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong &#8211; i quite like Singer&#8217;s work, generally&#8230;  if accurately described, his ST revival proposal (rejected in favour of Abrams&#8217; marketing division) was something worth waiting for &#8211; but i&#8217;m tired of the corporate laziness which finds nothing tedious in rebooting the same beeping project more times than i&#8217;ve had hot feeds. Tell me he&#8217;s creating something new in the tradition of BSG or ST or B5 (or whatever) &amp; i&#8217;m on board immediately; but this idea fills me with all the passionate enthusiasm i usually restrict for ancient mariners who shoot the albatross. I want to run faster than a speeding slug, leap tall daffodils with a single bound &amp; generally overkill this metaphor of total indifference with a thesaurus of misplaced similes; &amp; still can&#8217;t communicate in all its Klingon intensity the antagonism i feel right now</p>
<p>Sorry</p>
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		<title>By: Jarryd Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2012/09/star-trek-renegades-kickstarter/comment-page-1/#comment-9059</link>
		<dc:creator>Jarryd Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 22:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=20306#comment-9059</guid>
		<description>Will check it out!  Thanks.  Chase is someone I hope they&#039;ll have on Renegades!
And yes, the BSG Reboot did have a little less heart and soul than I would have liked too, but I admit I fell in love with the arc and by season 3 was an addict!  I&#039;m personally hoping Bryan Singer&#039;s shot at BSG goes ahead because I&#039;m not finished with that Universe yet - and the fanboy in me wants to see a continuation of the original 70s show (minus Galactica 1980).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will check it out!  Thanks.  Chase is someone I hope they&#8217;ll have on Renegades!<br />
And yes, the BSG Reboot did have a little less heart and soul than I would have liked too, but I admit I fell in love with the arc and by season 3 was an addict!  I&#8217;m personally hoping Bryan Singer&#8217;s shot at BSG goes ahead because I&#8217;m not finished with that Universe yet &#8211; and the fanboy in me wants to see a continuation of the original 70s show (minus Galactica 1980).</p>
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		<title>By: trekfan</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2012/09/star-trek-renegades-kickstarter/comment-page-1/#comment-9020</link>
		<dc:creator>trekfan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 15:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=20306#comment-9020</guid>
		<description>Exactly. Those are all good examples which further prove the point that what we are currently dealing with in Trek is, as you said, altered timeline, and not &quot;alternate&quot; timeline. Which is clearly a violation of the Temporal Prime Directive. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly. Those are all good examples which further prove the point that what we are currently dealing with in Trek is, as you said, altered timeline, and not &#8220;alternate&#8221; timeline. Which is clearly a violation of the Temporal Prime Directive. <img src='http://www.trektoday.com/content/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Robert Clements</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2012/09/star-trek-renegades-kickstarter/comment-page-1/#comment-9014</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Clements</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 07:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=20306#comment-9014</guid>
		<description>Odd that i was never a fan of the BSG reboot. I could appreciate it - it was brilliantly made - but there was an emptiness in the material which always kept me offside, part from the original material (which was borderline camp), part from the determination to take this material absolutely seriously (which i couldn&#039;t). This inconsistency seems to me to be a pretty good first draft definition of edge


In other crowdfunding news, DS9&#039;s Chase Masterson &amp; the team behind the wonderful Yesterday Was a Lie have re-upped their RUR Genesis project. THIS is a project i really hope gets made. No edge, but plenty of Chase. I read Capek&#039;s play (full title: Rossum&#039;s Universal Robots - &amp; yes, this IS where we get the word - from robotu, the Czech for serf) a generation ago; &amp; while its no masterpiece, it&#039;s a story filled with interesting ideas. Won&#039;t link directly in respect for the guidelines here - hopefully TrekToday will carry a promo shortly - but a search on IndieGoGo will find it. Or you can contact me via twitter &amp; i&#039;ll send you the details


(Standard disclaimers apply. No financial links beyond being a paying supporter)


With regards

Robert</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Odd that i was never a fan of the BSG reboot. I could appreciate it &#8211; it was brilliantly made &#8211; but there was an emptiness in the material which always kept me offside, part from the original material (which was borderline camp), part from the determination to take this material absolutely seriously (which i couldn&#8217;t). This inconsistency seems to me to be a pretty good first draft definition of edge</p>
<p>In other crowdfunding news, DS9&#8242;s Chase Masterson &amp; the team behind the wonderful Yesterday Was a Lie have re-upped their RUR Genesis project. THIS is a project i really hope gets made. No edge, but plenty of Chase. I read Capek&#8217;s play (full title: Rossum&#8217;s Universal Robots &#8211; &amp; yes, this IS where we get the word &#8211; from robotu, the Czech for serf) a generation ago; &amp; while its no masterpiece, it&#8217;s a story filled with interesting ideas. Won&#8217;t link directly in respect for the guidelines here &#8211; hopefully TrekToday will carry a promo shortly &#8211; but a search on IndieGoGo will find it. Or you can contact me via twitter &amp; i&#8217;ll send you the details</p>
<p>(Standard disclaimers apply. No financial links beyond being a paying supporter)</p>
<p>With regards</p>
<p>Robert</p>
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		<title>By: Jarryd Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2012/09/star-trek-renegades-kickstarter/comment-page-1/#comment-8999</link>
		<dc:creator>Jarryd Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2012 22:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=20306#comment-8999</guid>
		<description>I sincerely hope you&#039;re right, Robert.  Despite there being a number of years between the last episode of the BSG re-imagining and now, it&#039;s edgy, dark and characters brimming with flaws influence is still inspiring(?) unwise attempts to duplicate it&#039;s success.  It&#039;s as if the &quot;creative&quot; types doing sci-fi these days feel they need to replicate that amazing show - without actually realising the theme won&#039;t necessarily transition effectively and the simple fact a knock off is just a knock off regardless of the brand name it carries.
Star Trek isn&#039;t Battlestar, and as much as I loved Moore&#039;s vision and own and constantly rewatch all the episodes of BSG, as a fan I don&#039;t want that for Star Trek.  Complicated stories like we found on DS9 which pushed our Starfleet guys to the edge - yes.  The human spirit and why the Federation deserved to exist shone through in those moments, but selfishly I do want the idealism of Star Trek&#039;s vision to be forefront in anything that bears Trek&#039;s name.  I know human beings can be crap, if I wanted to watch that particular reality I&#039;d be hooked on soap operas and the banality of reality TV.  Don&#039;t lose that idealism.  Wanky?  Maybe!  :o)
It&#039;s great to see the gender balance issue being addressed and thank you to your voice and everyone else&#039;s for seeing to that.  I&#039;m hoping you and the rest of us keep the gentle nudges going in the right direction!
I&#039;m happy this is a crowd-funded endeavour, because I think you&#039;re right, it does sound like they&#039;re listening to us.  It&#039;s almost like those amazing days when JMS used to interact with B5 fans and take on board our thoughts as he crafted his five-year masterpiece (okay, 4.5 year masterpiece - the first half of season 5 probably shouldn&#039;t be counted - and RIP Michael O&#039;Hare).
Dear Renegades Peeps: Please now go and redesign the damn ship.  It&#039;s like a Klingon Bird of Prey had sex with the Defiant.  Two ships that were beautiful seperately, but make for one fugly thing when smashed together!  And make Walter Koenig smile... just once.  I dare you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I sincerely hope you&#8217;re right, Robert.  Despite there being a number of years between the last episode of the BSG re-imagining and now, it&#8217;s edgy, dark and characters brimming with flaws influence is still inspiring(?) unwise attempts to duplicate it&#8217;s success.  It&#8217;s as if the &#8220;creative&#8221; types doing sci-fi these days feel they need to replicate that amazing show &#8211; without actually realising the theme won&#8217;t necessarily transition effectively and the simple fact a knock off is just a knock off regardless of the brand name it carries.<br />
Star Trek isn&#8217;t Battlestar, and as much as I loved Moore&#8217;s vision and own and constantly rewatch all the episodes of BSG, as a fan I don&#8217;t want that for Star Trek.  Complicated stories like we found on DS9 which pushed our Starfleet guys to the edge &#8211; yes.  The human spirit and why the Federation deserved to exist shone through in those moments, but selfishly I do want the idealism of Star Trek&#8217;s vision to be forefront in anything that bears Trek&#8217;s name.  I know human beings can be crap, if I wanted to watch that particular reality I&#8217;d be hooked on soap operas and the banality of reality TV.  Don&#8217;t lose that idealism.  Wanky?  Maybe!  <img src='http://www.trektoday.com/content/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif' alt=':o' class='wp-smiley' /> )<br />
It&#8217;s great to see the gender balance issue being addressed and thank you to your voice and everyone else&#8217;s for seeing to that.  I&#8217;m hoping you and the rest of us keep the gentle nudges going in the right direction!<br />
I&#8217;m happy this is a crowd-funded endeavour, because I think you&#8217;re right, it does sound like they&#8217;re listening to us.  It&#8217;s almost like those amazing days when JMS used to interact with B5 fans and take on board our thoughts as he crafted his five-year masterpiece (okay, 4.5 year masterpiece &#8211; the first half of season 5 probably shouldn&#8217;t be counted &#8211; and RIP Michael O&#8217;Hare).<br />
Dear Renegades Peeps: Please now go and redesign the damn ship.  It&#8217;s like a Klingon Bird of Prey had sex with the Defiant.  Two ships that were beautiful seperately, but make for one fugly thing when smashed together!  And make Walter Koenig smile&#8230; just once.  I dare you!</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Clements</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2012/09/star-trek-renegades-kickstarter/comment-page-1/#comment-8978</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Clements</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2012 19:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=20306#comment-8978</guid>
		<description>A couple of clarifications, Kang (i&#039;ve talked too much)


Regarding budget you forgot marketing. Unstated (never officially admitted) but likely to be at least the same as the production budget (that&#039;s the usual rule of thumb). Instead of $385m on $150m, think $385m on $300m+. With other hidden costs accounted for, this would be a success but not a hit. Part of the reason ST XII was delayed, no doubt. If XI had been


Re: the new fanbase: Why then was there so little buzz over the production of ST XII? Not all of this was the indifference of old grouches. The rod Paramount created for itself is that it targetted a demographic for ST XI doesn&#039;t exist right now - the 13-16 year old kids who were watching each week&#039;s tent-pole picture then. By &amp; large, that&#039;s a different group of kids to the ones who are watching each week&#039;s tentpole picture now. That a few of those kids became fans isn&#039;t denied; but Abrams&#039; brief was to create a broad new fanbase which would carry the franchise into a new generation. I&#039;d argue from the observations that he failed. ST XI gained an extra buzz from having Nimoy in a positive role - the old grouches kept promoting it for free. But it isn&#039;t happening this time....


(Renegades has hit $43k by the way)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple of clarifications, Kang (i&#8217;ve talked too much)</p>
<p>Regarding budget you forgot marketing. Unstated (never officially admitted) but likely to be at least the same as the production budget (that&#8217;s the usual rule of thumb). Instead of $385m on $150m, think $385m on $300m+. With other hidden costs accounted for, this would be a success but not a hit. Part of the reason ST XII was delayed, no doubt. If XI had been</p>
<p>Re: the new fanbase: Why then was there so little buzz over the production of ST XII? Not all of this was the indifference of old grouches. The rod Paramount created for itself is that it targetted a demographic for ST XI doesn&#8217;t exist right now &#8211; the 13-16 year old kids who were watching each week&#8217;s tent-pole picture then. By &amp; large, that&#8217;s a different group of kids to the ones who are watching each week&#8217;s tentpole picture now. That a few of those kids became fans isn&#8217;t denied; but Abrams&#8217; brief was to create a broad new fanbase which would carry the franchise into a new generation. I&#8217;d argue from the observations that he failed. ST XI gained an extra buzz from having Nimoy in a positive role &#8211; the old grouches kept promoting it for free. But it isn&#8217;t happening this time&#8230;.</p>
<p>(Renegades has hit $43k by the way)</p>
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		<title>By: Kang the Unbalanced</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2012/09/star-trek-renegades-kickstarter/comment-page-1/#comment-8966</link>
		<dc:creator>Kang the Unbalanced</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2012 18:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=20306#comment-8966</guid>
		<description>Uh, Robert? I&#039;m sorry, but I have to disagree with your assessment on a few points.

&quot;ST XI was strictly an (at best). It was not a hit.&quot;
Really. 385+ million return on a 150 million budget? Yes, that&#039;s a hit. It was also very favorably reviewed all around.

&quot;It didn&#039;t
 create a new fanbase...&quot;
younger people (and by that I mean younger than myself, which is in the Yoda/Methuselah range, all you 30-year-olds are kids to me) not only went to see it, but started watching the other movies and shows, and even (Gasp!) joining fan forums.

&quot;...only survived on its ability to bring back the hardcore fanbase 
with the return of Mr Nimoy&quot;
I do hate to break this to you, but we Trekkies (or whatever badge you prefer) are a niche audience; small, though vocal. We can make or break a 20, 40, even 60 million dollar film, but we are not the deciding majority when the budget rises above that level.

 I&#039;ve already stated that JJTrek is far from perfect, and gone into my own problems with it in other posts. All I am saying here is that the bashing of the 2009 film (Star Trek ELEVEN, thank you very much), is not particularly justified on these points. 

However, departure from the Roddenberry vision, blatant disregard for scientific accuracy, and trashing of established Trek canon remain fair game. My hopes were that those areas would be strengthened in Start Trek TWELVE, but I already have the sinking feeling that the opposite will end up being the case, and all the good things about Star Trek ELEVEN that gave me hope will be flushed down the TF:ROTF toilet.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh, Robert? I&#8217;m sorry, but I have to disagree with your assessment on a few points.</p>
<p>&#8220;ST XI was strictly an (at best). It was not a hit.&#8221;<br />
Really. 385+ million return on a 150 million budget? Yes, that&#8217;s a hit. It was also very favorably reviewed all around.</p>
<p>&#8220;It didn&#8217;t<br />
 create a new fanbase&#8230;&#8221;<br />
younger people (and by that I mean younger than myself, which is in the Yoda/Methuselah range, all you 30-year-olds are kids to me) not only went to see it, but started watching the other movies and shows, and even (Gasp!) joining fan forums.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;only survived on its ability to bring back the hardcore fanbase<br />
with the return of Mr Nimoy&#8221;<br />
I do hate to break this to you, but we Trekkies (or whatever badge you prefer) are a niche audience; small, though vocal. We can make or break a 20, 40, even 60 million dollar film, but we are not the deciding majority when the budget rises above that level.</p>
<p> I&#8217;ve already stated that JJTrek is far from perfect, and gone into my own problems with it in other posts. All I am saying here is that the bashing of the 2009 film (Star Trek ELEVEN, thank you very much), is not particularly justified on these points. </p>
<p>However, departure from the Roddenberry vision, blatant disregard for scientific accuracy, and trashing of established Trek canon remain fair game. My hopes were that those areas would be strengthened in Start Trek TWELVE, but I already have the sinking feeling that the opposite will end up being the case, and all the good things about Star Trek ELEVEN that gave me hope will be flushed down the TF:ROTF toilet.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2012/09/star-trek-renegades-kickstarter/comment-page-1/#comment-8945</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2012 13:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=20306#comment-8945</guid>
		<description>But if you accept that anything goes, then we may as well just be watching Doctor Who. But yeah, you&#039;ve got it basically right. Now, that&#039;s not to say that time travel and the multiverse are mutually exclusive. They are not. The multiverse still exists, but within the infinite varieties, only one is the universe we&#039;ve been watching. So, yes, with every action a new spinoff universe has been created, but each new creation is divergent from the others. So, while in some universe out there, Kirk finds Khan and Khan kills him during the events of Space Seed, in our universe, that isn&#039;t what happened... And going back in time, if one were to change the past and have Kirk be killed by Khan, you wouldn&#039;t be switching us into that universe, you&#039;d be rewriting this one... that&#039;s the nature of changing the timeline as opposed to exiting your universe for one where that was inherently the way things were. For instance, in First Contact, we see a regular Earth, an assimilated Earth, and then, although we don&#039;t see it, we have a regular Earth that is just slightly different than the one that had originally existed. The timeline was rewritten. The Borg didn&#039;t go back in time, change the past, create a new timeline, and go about their business. Obviously (obvious because we see it happen), the timeline therein is rewritten. Enterprise goes back, fixes things as best they can to ensure First Contact itself, and go back to the future. But those Borg were there. It&#039;s not like Enterprise caused the event not to happen. That&#039;s how Borg could show up for Archer. The universe had slightly changed. Another prime example is Yesterday&#039;s Enterprise. The whole point of that episode was that the sacrifice of the crew of Enterprise-D was necessary to save the crew/ship of Enterprise-C to send them &quot;home&quot; and restore the timeline... but again, restore is a tricky word. Prior to the events of Yesterday&#039;s Enterprise, there was no Sela. Afterward, there was. It&#039;s not a different universe. Just like the flash that replaced Worf with Yar in the first place, when the timeline again reset, it reset to what it now was... which was a world where Tasha Yar had returned to the past and given birth. A different universe? Nah... just an altered timeline. So, yes, the multiverse and time travel can coexist without impacting each other, as each native universe has its own identity. But the two shouldn&#039;t be confused. You can travel between dimensions/quantum realities/universes, and you can time travel. It&#039;s just in the entire history of Trek, the two have never both been done... afterall, what would be the point? Alternate universes are illegitimate in terms of their reality to our characters... usually when you involve one it&#039;s simply as a means of stranding your protagonist away from everything they&#039;ve known in order that you showcase small or large differences as a means of highlighting something in the real timeline... Spending larger amounts of time and effort in an alternate reality seems rather fruitless. After all, while the Mirror Universe is somewhat entertaining to visit, would you ever want us stranded there permanently?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But if you accept that anything goes, then we may as well just be watching Doctor Who. But yeah, you&#8217;ve got it basically right. Now, that&#8217;s not to say that time travel and the multiverse are mutually exclusive. They are not. The multiverse still exists, but within the infinite varieties, only one is the universe we&#8217;ve been watching. So, yes, with every action a new spinoff universe has been created, but each new creation is divergent from the others. So, while in some universe out there, Kirk finds Khan and Khan kills him during the events of Space Seed, in our universe, that isn&#8217;t what happened&#8230; And going back in time, if one were to change the past and have Kirk be killed by Khan, you wouldn&#8217;t be switching us into that universe, you&#8217;d be rewriting this one&#8230; that&#8217;s the nature of changing the timeline as opposed to exiting your universe for one where that was inherently the way things were. For instance, in First Contact, we see a regular Earth, an assimilated Earth, and then, although we don&#8217;t see it, we have a regular Earth that is just slightly different than the one that had originally existed. The timeline was rewritten. The Borg didn&#8217;t go back in time, change the past, create a new timeline, and go about their business. Obviously (obvious because we see it happen), the timeline therein is rewritten. Enterprise goes back, fixes things as best they can to ensure First Contact itself, and go back to the future. But those Borg were there. It&#8217;s not like Enterprise caused the event not to happen. That&#8217;s how Borg could show up for Archer. The universe had slightly changed. Another prime example is Yesterday&#8217;s Enterprise. The whole point of that episode was that the sacrifice of the crew of Enterprise-D was necessary to save the crew/ship of Enterprise-C to send them &#8220;home&#8221; and restore the timeline&#8230; but again, restore is a tricky word. Prior to the events of Yesterday&#8217;s Enterprise, there was no Sela. Afterward, there was. It&#8217;s not a different universe. Just like the flash that replaced Worf with Yar in the first place, when the timeline again reset, it reset to what it now was&#8230; which was a world where Tasha Yar had returned to the past and given birth. A different universe? Nah&#8230; just an altered timeline. So, yes, the multiverse and time travel can coexist without impacting each other, as each native universe has its own identity. But the two shouldn&#8217;t be confused. You can travel between dimensions/quantum realities/universes, and you can time travel. It&#8217;s just in the entire history of Trek, the two have never both been done&#8230; afterall, what would be the point? Alternate universes are illegitimate in terms of their reality to our characters&#8230; usually when you involve one it&#8217;s simply as a means of stranding your protagonist away from everything they&#8217;ve known in order that you showcase small or large differences as a means of highlighting something in the real timeline&#8230; Spending larger amounts of time and effort in an alternate reality seems rather fruitless. After all, while the Mirror Universe is somewhat entertaining to visit, would you ever want us stranded there permanently?</p>
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