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	<title>Comments on: Retro Review: Necessary Evil</title>
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		<title>By: Robert Clements</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2012/04/retro-review-necessary-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-4294</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Clements</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2012 22:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=16642#comment-4294</guid>
		<description>I agree with some of your comments on Voyager, by the way. Not sure the cast was better - though the casting certainly was - &amp; it seemed that the writers had learnt from the mistakes in the early seasons of TNG &amp; DS9, but they then made their own, new mistakes. Most of the cast was wasted. Suppose that happens when you let market research define what the show should be</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with some of your comments on Voyager, by the way. Not sure the cast was better &#8211; though the casting certainly was &#8211; &amp; it seemed that the writers had learnt from the mistakes in the early seasons of TNG &amp; DS9, but they then made their own, new mistakes. Most of the cast was wasted. Suppose that happens when you let market research define what the show should be</p>
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		<title>By: hostile_17</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2012/04/retro-review-necessary-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-4291</link>
		<dc:creator>hostile_17</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=16642#comment-4291</guid>
		<description>Truly a great DS9 ep.. and one where the show really comes of age. When you compare this to the episodes like &quot;The Storyteller&quot; in season one it shows you how fast the show grew up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Truly a great DS9 ep.. and one where the show really comes of age. When you compare this to the episodes like &#8220;The Storyteller&#8221; in season one it shows you how fast the show grew up.</p>
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		<title>By: Seventhbeacon</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2012/04/retro-review-necessary-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-4279</link>
		<dc:creator>Seventhbeacon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2012 04:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=16642#comment-4279</guid>
		<description>I do remember it getting better, but it&#039;s been so long... I&#039;m hoping to get the blu rays, so I&#039;ll definitely go with what you&#039;re saying.  I could easily be remembering it wrong, because it&#039;s been many years since I&#039;ve seen the show on DVD!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do remember it getting better, but it&#8217;s been so long&#8230; I&#8217;m hoping to get the blu rays, so I&#8217;ll definitely go with what you&#8217;re saying.  I could easily be remembering it wrong, because it&#8217;s been many years since I&#8217;ve seen the show on DVD!</p>
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		<title>By: Bobby</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2012/04/retro-review-necessary-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-4267</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2012 12:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=16642#comment-4267</guid>
		<description>Actually the first two seasons of TNG were cringe-worthy. Season 3, at least to me, was the best year of trek ever. The acting, the production values, and particularly the writing became far better almost overnight. I don&#039;t know exactly what happened (they hired Michael Piller for one), but I suspect Berman deserves more credit than he gets for the transformation. :) 

That&#039;s also the year TNG went from niche show to being generally popular, when all my non-nerd friends and acquaintances started watching. It&#039;s the first year of &quot;modern trek&quot; and established the mold that all the other shows would follow. 

At first I really disliked Data (what is he a mime?) but he eventually won me over and was my favorite character; he was great. Worf was my other favorite, actually - I loved his deep voice and stoic little one liners. :) He was very funny. 

He was perfect for DS9 and a great addition to the cast. The earliest internet rumors about DS9 said that O&#039;Brien, Ro, and Worf would be joining the new cast. Ro ended up leaving altogether instead, and Worf didn&#039;t end up moving. Which was probably good for TNG. So when Worf finally ended up on DS9, my reaction was &quot;finally&quot; - it just seemed right. 

He had better material on DS9 than on TNG anyhow; some of the &quot;Troi and Alexander&quot; melodrama in those last few seasons was pretty lame. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually the first two seasons of TNG were cringe-worthy. Season 3, at least to me, was the best year of trek ever. The acting, the production values, and particularly the writing became far better almost overnight. I don&#8217;t know exactly what happened (they hired Michael Piller for one), but I suspect Berman deserves more credit than he gets for the transformation. <img src='http://www.trektoday.com/content/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>That&#8217;s also the year TNG went from niche show to being generally popular, when all my non-nerd friends and acquaintances started watching. It&#8217;s the first year of &#8220;modern trek&#8221; and established the mold that all the other shows would follow. </p>
<p>At first I really disliked Data (what is he a mime?) but he eventually won me over and was my favorite character; he was great. Worf was my other favorite, actually &#8211; I loved his deep voice and stoic little one liners. <img src='http://www.trektoday.com/content/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  He was very funny. </p>
<p>He was perfect for DS9 and a great addition to the cast. The earliest internet rumors about DS9 said that O&#8217;Brien, Ro, and Worf would be joining the new cast. Ro ended up leaving altogether instead, and Worf didn&#8217;t end up moving. Which was probably good for TNG. So when Worf finally ended up on DS9, my reaction was &#8220;finally&#8221; &#8211; it just seemed right. </p>
<p>He had better material on DS9 than on TNG anyhow; some of the &#8220;Troi and Alexander&#8221; melodrama in those last few seasons was pretty lame. </p>
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		<title>By: Seventhbeacon</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2012/04/retro-review-necessary-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-4252</link>
		<dc:creator>Seventhbeacon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2012 01:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=16642#comment-4252</guid>
		<description>I finally forced myself to watch Voyager last year, all the way through.  It was a pain (I would typically watch early episodes in 2-3 sittings per episode, if I didn&#039;t just skip them altogether), and didn&#039;t seem to hit its stride until sometime in season 5.  I agree with you that the actors were wasted potential, as were their character concepts.  A lot of people, for some reason, disliked Janeway, and I thought, as much as I hated the show, she was a redeeming factor.  You weren&#039;t always supposed to like her decisions, but they felt real... as she strained to live up to Federation ideals when their very survival hinged on it.  Sadly, the writing on that series was just terrible until those last few seasons.

Also, yeah, first three seasons of TNG, despite individual episodes, were just cringe-worthy.  The only three main actors I ever liked in that series were Patrick Stewart, Brent Spiner, and Diana Muldaur.  I was never impressed with the rest (though they did improve along with the show&#039;s overall scripting), even Michael Dorn, who could do Worf okay, but otherwise just seemed completely silly in his delivery and expressions.  (This includes DS9, though by then he was very polished at playing Worf.  I still remember him from the 1940&#039;s episode though *cringe*.)  Good thing Woof was so stoic!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I finally forced myself to watch Voyager last year, all the way through.  It was a pain (I would typically watch early episodes in 2-3 sittings per episode, if I didn&#8217;t just skip them altogether), and didn&#8217;t seem to hit its stride until sometime in season 5.  I agree with you that the actors were wasted potential, as were their character concepts.  A lot of people, for some reason, disliked Janeway, and I thought, as much as I hated the show, she was a redeeming factor.  You weren&#8217;t always supposed to like her decisions, but they felt real&#8230; as she strained to live up to Federation ideals when their very survival hinged on it.  Sadly, the writing on that series was just terrible until those last few seasons.</p>
<p>Also, yeah, first three seasons of TNG, despite individual episodes, were just cringe-worthy.  The only three main actors I ever liked in that series were Patrick Stewart, Brent Spiner, and Diana Muldaur.  I was never impressed with the rest (though they did improve along with the show&#8217;s overall scripting), even Michael Dorn, who could do Worf okay, but otherwise just seemed completely silly in his delivery and expressions.  (This includes DS9, though by then he was very polished at playing Worf.  I still remember him from the 1940&#8242;s episode though *cringe*.)  Good thing Woof was so stoic!</p>
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		<title>By: Bobby</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2012/04/retro-review-necessary-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-4249</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2012 01:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=16642#comment-4249</guid>
		<description>I loved DS9 and I eventually grew to like the characters. The main cast on that show was kind of a weak link, so it took a while to warm up to the show for most people. They made up for it with awesome, incredible writing and character development. They gave the actors a lot to work with and eventually most of the characters shined and things worked out okay. 

But for that first season or so, the acting of the main cast was something you had to kind of get past to like the show. The guest acting on DS9 was another story altogether. The &quot;extended cast&quot; (including people like Dukat, Garak, and other frequently recurring guest stars) were better than the main cast on any other trek before or since. I don&#039;t know how they managed to find such amazing talent. 

Brooks seemed to take the longest to warm to his role. I thought he was &quot;wooden&quot; and odd for the first few seasons, even though eventually Sisko became one of my favorite Trek captains. 

Visitor is one of the few cast members I liked instantly. I&#039;m *quite* aware most people didn&#039;t. I watched it in a large group college dorm setting, and she was by far the most disliked character that first season (too &quot;bitchy&quot;). I guess that&#039;s kind of what I liked about her, she was a good actress but a genuinely unlikeable character. That was something pretty new for Star Trek. And then she (and the writers) MADE you like her and made you understand her. 

I don&#039;t always see eye to eye with Michelle (WAY too much feminism) but I get why she likes Kira so much because I like her too, for a lot of the same reasons. I think its why I&#039;m really enjoying her DS9 reviews. We both love the show, and for a lot of similar reasons. 

It isn&#039;t just DS9. I always thought the acting was uneven on TNG as well, particularly at first. Stewart was FANTASTIC and I think that is a big part of what made the show work, especially on season 1, where the rest of the cast bordered on cheese most of the time. I love TNG almost as much as I love DS9, but I can admit the acting was at times cringe-worthy, especially Wesley and Geordi. 

The show with the best cast, in my opinion, was Voyager. I really liked it, particularly that first season or so. I think that&#039;s why I am often so down on the show overall. So much wasted potential, crushed by mediocrity in the writing room. I&#039;m rewatching it now, I&#039;m currently on season 6. It&#039;s better than I remembered, but still quite flawed. The likeability of the characters and cast is, in my opinion, what kept it watchable and made it work, all things considered. Despite the drivel they were often given to work with. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I loved DS9 and I eventually grew to like the characters. The main cast on that show was kind of a weak link, so it took a while to warm up to the show for most people. They made up for it with awesome, incredible writing and character development. They gave the actors a lot to work with and eventually most of the characters shined and things worked out okay. </p>
<p>But for that first season or so, the acting of the main cast was something you had to kind of get past to like the show. The guest acting on DS9 was another story altogether. The &#8220;extended cast&#8221; (including people like Dukat, Garak, and other frequently recurring guest stars) were better than the main cast on any other trek before or since. I don&#8217;t know how they managed to find such amazing talent. </p>
<p>Brooks seemed to take the longest to warm to his role. I thought he was &#8220;wooden&#8221; and odd for the first few seasons, even though eventually Sisko became one of my favorite Trek captains. </p>
<p>Visitor is one of the few cast members I liked instantly. I&#8217;m *quite* aware most people didn&#8217;t. I watched it in a large group college dorm setting, and she was by far the most disliked character that first season (too &#8220;bitchy&#8221;). I guess that&#8217;s kind of what I liked about her, she was a good actress but a genuinely unlikeable character. That was something pretty new for Star Trek. And then she (and the writers) MADE you like her and made you understand her. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t always see eye to eye with Michelle (WAY too much feminism) but I get why she likes Kira so much because I like her too, for a lot of the same reasons. I think its why I&#8217;m really enjoying her DS9 reviews. We both love the show, and for a lot of similar reasons. </p>
<p>It isn&#8217;t just DS9. I always thought the acting was uneven on TNG as well, particularly at first. Stewart was FANTASTIC and I think that is a big part of what made the show work, especially on season 1, where the rest of the cast bordered on cheese most of the time. I love TNG almost as much as I love DS9, but I can admit the acting was at times cringe-worthy, especially Wesley and Geordi. </p>
<p>The show with the best cast, in my opinion, was Voyager. I really liked it, particularly that first season or so. I think that&#8217;s why I am often so down on the show overall. So much wasted potential, crushed by mediocrity in the writing room. I&#8217;m rewatching it now, I&#8217;m currently on season 6. It&#8217;s better than I remembered, but still quite flawed. The likeability of the characters and cast is, in my opinion, what kept it watchable and made it work, all things considered. Despite the drivel they were often given to work with. </p>
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		<title>By: Robert Clements</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2012/04/retro-review-necessary-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-4246</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Clements</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2012 00:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=16642#comment-4246</guid>
		<description>Oddly, i think it was with Lost that the approach became a cliche in drama (it was Seinfeld with comedy). It was purely a situation drama; &amp; you cared about the characters in the situation or you didn&#039;t (i didn&#039;t). Very useful for the writers - they can keep changing the situation because the great fear nowadays is repeating yourself. At a certain point, the characters stop being flawed people - as with the people of DS9 - &amp; become cyphers, puppets ripe for manipulation, as on Lost

BL is a little different. Sure the characters are flawed; but Kelley was too smart not to sell them to the audience. Character-based humour - not gags &amp; pratfalls - was a big part of that process, as it later became on DS9. Frankly, i wish that he&#039;d been given the ST reboot, rather than the current talentless troika</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oddly, i think it was with Lost that the approach became a cliche in drama (it was Seinfeld with comedy). It was purely a situation drama; &amp; you cared about the characters in the situation or you didn&#8217;t (i didn&#8217;t). Very useful for the writers &#8211; they can keep changing the situation because the great fear nowadays is repeating yourself. At a certain point, the characters stop being flawed people &#8211; as with the people of DS9 &#8211; &amp; become cyphers, puppets ripe for manipulation, as on Lost</p>
<p>BL is a little different. Sure the characters are flawed; but Kelley was too smart not to sell them to the audience. Character-based humour &#8211; not gags &amp; pratfalls &#8211; was a big part of that process, as it later became on DS9. Frankly, i wish that he&#8217;d been given the ST reboot, rather than the current talentless troika</p>
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		<title>By: Seventhbeacon</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2012/04/retro-review-necessary-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-4240</link>
		<dc:creator>Seventhbeacon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Apr 2012 18:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=16642#comment-4240</guid>
		<description>It may indeed speak more to my tastes as a consumer of television.  I also liked Lost&#039;s group of imperfect people, Boston Legal (with the deliciously flawed Alan Shore)... as much as I enjoyed TNG (neither Voyager or Enterprise, with their mundane scripts and rehash on TNG eps, held my interest for long), I found all of these characters being Paragons of Virtue to be less interesting.  Sure, they had their flaws, but I still found most of the DS9 characters likeable.  It may be that they were more identifiable because of their imperfections, which has more resonance.

I was pleased that it was such a distinct departure from TNG and TOS... perhaps they were trying too hard to create a different brand with the show, and I can see how that would alienate long-time Trek fans, who wanted something closer to the original premise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It may indeed speak more to my tastes as a consumer of television.  I also liked Lost&#8217;s group of imperfect people, Boston Legal (with the deliciously flawed Alan Shore)&#8230; as much as I enjoyed TNG (neither Voyager or Enterprise, with their mundane scripts and rehash on TNG eps, held my interest for long), I found all of these characters being Paragons of Virtue to be less interesting.  Sure, they had their flaws, but I still found most of the DS9 characters likeable.  It may be that they were more identifiable because of their imperfections, which has more resonance.</p>
<p>I was pleased that it was such a distinct departure from TNG and TOS&#8230; perhaps they were trying too hard to create a different brand with the show, and I can see how that would alienate long-time Trek fans, who wanted something closer to the original premise.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Clements</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2012/04/retro-review-necessary-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-4231</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Clements</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Apr 2012 11:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=16642#comment-4231</guid>
		<description>The divided opinion on the quality of the DS9 cast (&amp; Mr Brooks &amp; Ms Visitor in particular) is pretty commonplace. The Niners adore them; &amp; everyone else doesn&#039;t. Their loss....

Part of the problem is something that as become a (possibly) unintended cliche in modern film &amp; TV: DS9 is a show which isn&#039;t particularly interested in making the main characters likable. The writers - &amp; one assumes the actors, too - seem to assume that audiences will sympathise with them because of their individual situations; but apart from with the Ferengi (a choice which borders on the bizaare in this context), there&#039;s oddly little effort put into making them attractive in any conventional way. The faults of Sisko, Kira, etc, are brought further into the foreground than would ever have been allowed on TNG (or Voyager, for that matter); &amp; the traditional honours are destressed

It was a fresh approach back then &amp; - if you got with the programme - worked wonderfully with this hard-edged, basically unglamorous cast; but it does rather make a rod for the show&#039;s back. If the audience doesn&#039;t care, they won&#039;t watch

Alphas mark II, please note....

(Mind you, it didn&#039;t help that the most conventionally sexy actors in the cast - Siddig &amp; Terry - appeared to playing the other&#039;s character during the first season of DS9. By Necessary Evil, of course, the writers had changed Julian &amp; Jadxia to fit the actors rather better...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The divided opinion on the quality of the DS9 cast (&amp; Mr Brooks &amp; Ms Visitor in particular) is pretty commonplace. The Niners adore them; &amp; everyone else doesn&#8217;t. Their loss&#8230;.</p>
<p>Part of the problem is something that as become a (possibly) unintended cliche in modern film &amp; TV: DS9 is a show which isn&#8217;t particularly interested in making the main characters likable. The writers &#8211; &amp; one assumes the actors, too &#8211; seem to assume that audiences will sympathise with them because of their individual situations; but apart from with the Ferengi (a choice which borders on the bizaare in this context), there&#8217;s oddly little effort put into making them attractive in any conventional way. The faults of Sisko, Kira, etc, are brought further into the foreground than would ever have been allowed on TNG (or Voyager, for that matter); &amp; the traditional honours are destressed</p>
<p>It was a fresh approach back then &amp; &#8211; if you got with the programme &#8211; worked wonderfully with this hard-edged, basically unglamorous cast; but it does rather make a rod for the show&#8217;s back. If the audience doesn&#8217;t care, they won&#8217;t watch</p>
<p>Alphas mark II, please note&#8230;.</p>
<p>(Mind you, it didn&#8217;t help that the most conventionally sexy actors in the cast &#8211; Siddig &amp; Terry &#8211; appeared to playing the other&#8217;s character during the first season of DS9. By Necessary Evil, of course, the writers had changed Julian &amp; Jadxia to fit the actors rather better&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Seventhbeacon</title>
		<link>http://www.trektoday.com/content/2012/04/retro-review-necessary-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-4225</link>
		<dc:creator>Seventhbeacon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Apr 2012 09:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=16642#comment-4225</guid>
		<description>I find it amusing that Bobby and Dandru have the exact opposite opinions regarding the actors.   Personally, I think the DS9 cast was a superior ensemble to all the other shows.  There&#039;s no denying individual talents like Patrick Stewart and Leonard Nimoy, but as a whole the primary DS9 players were better off.  They also had the benefit of a stellar recurring guest star cast with amazing talents like Marc Alaimo, JG Hertzler, Louise Fletcher, and Andrew Robinson.

Thanks, Michelle.  I really think you hit all the crucial notes of this episode with the analysis.  I remember seeing this the first time and re-evaluating Kira once more.  She is easily the character with the best series arc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it amusing that Bobby and Dandru have the exact opposite opinions regarding the actors.   Personally, I think the DS9 cast was a superior ensemble to all the other shows.  There&#8217;s no denying individual talents like Patrick Stewart and Leonard Nimoy, but as a whole the primary DS9 players were better off.  They also had the benefit of a stellar recurring guest star cast with amazing talents like Marc Alaimo, JG Hertzler, Louise Fletcher, and Andrew Robinson.</p>
<p>Thanks, Michelle.  I really think you hit all the crucial notes of this episode with the analysis.  I remember seeing this the first time and re-evaluating Kira once more.  She is easily the character with the best series arc.</p>
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